things, either free rebecca back to me, or let me just forget about it. >> that beard is amazing. look, i've said it before and again, it's hard not to be sympathetic for a grown man looks like he's in zz top is po poet tick as his raccoon. there seemed to be a unique bond there. when it comes to this raccoon controversy, you make the call on "the ridiculist." that does it for us. see you again at 10:00 p.m. eastern. thanks for watching. thanks for watching. piers morgan live starts now. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com this is "piers morgan live." welcome to the viewers in the united states and around the world. the bloodiest day in egypt since the arabs bring revolution. is the country teetering on the brink of open civil war and what will it mean for america?

gone to pot, america's marijuana obsession. i'll talk to people on both sides of the issue that got this country fired up. you heard dr. sanjay gupta say this about his u-turn on marijuana. >> if you look at the papers written in the united states about marijuana, the vast majority are about harm. we fund studies on harm. we don't fund studies on benefit so it gives a distorted picture. the man that wants to thank him personally for changing his mind on weed. medical marijuana user montel williams and an angry debbie row testifies about drug use and hanna anderson speaks out online days after her rescue. why she says she will never forgive herselves for the deaths of her mother and brother and other fascinating information. egypt in uproar. at least 278 killed across the country in one day, the worst bloodshed since the revolution that toppled moe bar rick.

what happens when the sun comes up is anybody's guess. there are fears the death toll could go much, much higher. arwa damon is live in cairo.egy of the country exploding. what is your take on what is happening here? >> reporter: you know, covering this throughout the day, watching the clashes beginning to spread and intensify across the capital, hearing the reports from clashes breaking out elsewhere, angry mobs of supporters of ousted president mohamed morsi even attacking churches, it felt as if one was beginning see the very edges of egyptian society fraying. people are so angry. there is so much anger that is out there. the security forces here not only having to deal with trying to clear those morsi supporters from the two main sites but

multiple front lines erupting across the capital. there were supporters of the ousted president trying to breakthrough the ranks of the riot police. there were clashes that were taking place in another location in cairo where morsi supporters actually did manage to set up yet another sit and sight. as far as we're aware, hundreds of them are still in that location and established a makeshift barricade and a field hospital. they have begun building a stage. they are saying that they will stay there. the security forces are going to have to deal with that and it's just not the dynamic of security forces clashing with morsi supporters, you also have anti morsi residents in some of these neighborhoods getting involved, as well. in some other areas, neighborhood watch being set up. residents, check points, manning these check points themselves armed with bats. it's an incredibly tense situation here.

a lot of people fearful of what the next stage of this chapter of egypt's bloody history will bring. >> and also, dangerous day for journalist. we saw three journalest lose their life today including mcelderry dean who previously worked for cnn. you yourself came under fire at one stage. i want to show footage of that now and talk to you afterwards. >> reporter: for some of these hard core supporters you will see them out there but then at the same time you have -- >> the obvious question, arwa, do you believe journalist including yourself are under de attack here or is it caught up in the general may ham. >> reporter: it is difficult to

judge that. at number of the colleagues out there in their reporting that was coming out talking about how police threatened them, telling them to get away if they saw them again they would be shot. you had at least three journalist who were killed. there were a number on other journalist who were wounded. dozens of journalist reportedly detained in some cases beaten as well. look, egypt has never been a country that's exactly been friendly to the press core, no matter what story you're covering may be. we saw similar violence towards journalist back in the days of the uprising of mubarak. it's a difficult country to work in as a journalist. a lot of people angry at the press and foreign media. in one of the areas today outside of the main city, we had a very angry woman through a brick at us. the crowds there turning against us. we were advised to leave the scene. so it's a very difficult

environment to navigate, especially because the front lines here, too with violence are not entirely clear. >> stay safe out there. dangerous situation and i appreciate all the reporting for us. i want to bring in egyptian journalist, she knows how quickly it could spiral out of control. she was arrested in 2011 while reporting on the revolution and joins me by phone. mona, thank you for joining me. the last time we talked was mubarak scenes. it seems a long way away. what do you think is going on and how bad can this get? >> it's been a horrible day, piers. i want to condemn the mass killing by the security services and the church torchings that happened across the country, and i'm speaking to you right now in a cairo under curfew as many other provinces across the country are. i want to stress one thing, and

this is important. we have to stop the bloodshed. the revolution is not named in the islamic state. the revolution was launched in the name of freedom and social dignity and social justice. and we need wise heads to rise above the horrendous day and say, let's sit down and talk and stop shooting at each other, stop killing at each other and burning churches. egypt is bigger than this. i reduce to believe the revolution is dead. we have not fought this hard for 60 years we've been fighting to break a dangerous paradigm. we've been told you must choose between military wor the muslim brotherhood and equipment is bigger than those. it was a big mistake for the security services to violently disburse. i believe in everybody's right to peacefully protest anywhere and too keep -- they must keep

the protest peaceful but we know too well how violence and brutal the security services are and we saw that today. >> mona, thank you very much indeed for joining me. the world is watching in horror. today john kerry called the situation deplorable. how would the white house react? ivan watson, this is a good awful mess, isn't it? there is no other way of putting it. how bad do you think it will get? >> it's scary and heart breaking to see. i mean, it's hard to believe it was a little more than two years ago, piers, that egypt looked like it was embarking on this incredible hopeful period of democracy and now, i think it's very clear, you know, since the military coup at the beginning of july and now with this tremendous loss of life that that experiment in democracy is truly dead.

the options in the future i just don't understand where the military planners behind this crack down think their country can go. how can you hold elections when the first democratically elected president of the country, mohamed morsi is in detention in an undisclosed location for six weeks. much of the leadership of the muslim brotherhood is arrested. you have to loss of life, as well. are they hoping that the muslim brotherhood, a movement that has survived for decades in egypt facing torture and serious repression and persecution, do they believe these people will disappear? they are part of egypt society and i guess the measures we saw today seem to be an effort to crush in part of egyptian society. >> listen what secretary of state john kerry had to say. >> today's events are

deplorable, and they run counter to egypten aspirations for peace and democracy. the egyptians inside and outside of the government need to take a step back. they need to calm the situation, and avoid further loss of life. we also strongly oppose a return to state of emergency law. >> robin wright, the problem is nobody is mentioning the c word, coup. what we are seeing is obviously a military coup. why are the americans persisting and pretending otherwise? >> well, it's really so man ticks. but the united states faces a tough dilemma now, what to do about the most important country

in the arab world and a country that received 30 billion in aid and the military many leaders include the current leader, general were trained in the united states. the united states has to decide what to do with $1.5 million provided to egypt annually and military exercises. there were a lot of other stakes, not just peace processes but major trade and military issues. there are a huge number of issues that washington has to face. and it's not just the obama administration but congress which may well pressure the white house to take tougher action because of that issue of the coup. senators gram and mccain were in egypt recently, and used the word coup alienating many in egypt but that's what it was. they warned about the dangers of

dissen grags into bloodshed and the danger is now the role the united states tried to play as mediators between the military and the muslim brotherhood to try to find some kind of compromise is now muoot. there is not much the united states can do. >> robin wright, ivan watson, thank you very much indeed. update you with any developments in egypt. dramatic and dangerous. breaking news about the kidnapping of hanna anderson. search warrants just released include shocking details including dimaggio may have tortured hanna's mother and brother and authorities believe james dimaggio's sister may help him. a preliminary autopsy showed dimaggio was shot at least five times. meanwhile, hanna herself is speaking out what happened to her. she analyzed questions from strangers on the social networking site ask dot fm. it was days after her rescue.

joining me to answer questions a psychologist and medical director of children and family services. we spoke, extraordinary revelations from the warrants issued. according to the documents, dimaggio tortured and killed his best friend's wife and son and shot and killed the dog. dimaggio set the house on fire and goes into detail about that. it also, if you couple it with the revolutions from hanna anderson in this very far reaching series of questions and answers with random strangers she revealed details why she had no idea, what had happened to her mother and son and he had persuaded her that he needed her help in carrying stuff to the river and that she had to take backpack after backpack up there for him and he was armed and dangerous and threatening her.

what do you make of this? >> there is probably a lot more to the story than we understand at this point. whenever you have a family friend or uncle or relative who is an odd-acting kind of person they have an influence over the family but the thing we forget about. those parents have let that person into their lives of their children and there is a boundary issue there, and i always wonder why would that happen. where is her dad while she's on social media? where is her mother and father to not know this guy is creepy and she feels creepy about him? >> it does seem strange. to some of the q and as here, are you happy they shot him? they shot him. he deserved what he got. what was the worst thing that happened to you during the kidnapping, finding out my mom, ethan and the dog were dead. where were you when the fire went off? on the road to idaho. was it hard to see your dad again? it's hard to see any adult guy. why didn't you run? he would have killed me.

the house for no reason and the thing went off and caught fire and burned. she said she told us he was losing his house because of money issues so he went up there one last time to support him and have fun riding go carts up there but he tricked us and she said where were you in the process of him burning the house down? was it is secret? he would set it so it would catch on fire at a certain time. it built a picture of him trapping them in the house, luring them down there, the property and losing it, killing we believe now killing and torturing the mother and son to death. but oblivious hanna going with him and helping him moving stuff to the river. here is another interesting fact that's come out which apparently, 13 phone calls during the day, hanna anderson, the 16-year-old teenager and james dimaggio, her kidnapper. what do you read into all this?

>> well, i mean, the same thing you're seeing. there was an obviously connection. we don't know obviously anything. there was some -- a long standing history of her knowing him, not really a good connection. he creeped her out. she felt some powerlessness around him and he owned them. why were they going thereupon to help him feel better and one last time? how did she know he set a fire and it would go off? there is a conflicting piece to this. let's remember she's been really traumatiz traumatized. she's saying things when she walked out of that idaho situation that will probably be very different as time goes on. >> she answers a question do you think he had a crush on you or was it a rumor. she said yes he did it was more of a family crush and had feelings like he wanted nothing bad to happen to me. she was asked did he do anything actual to you in any way? she said i can't answer that. did he want to be with you? he took me to get him to the river. i had to carry 50-pound

backpacks up and down mountains back and forth. why didn't you tell your parents he creeped you out? he was my dad's best friend and i didn't want to ruin anything between them. if you assume everything she is saying is an accurate picture. >> if we assume that, it's far too much pressure for a 16-year-old girl to have to be a parent in her family and make sure her parents don't get upset by this guy creeping her out. similar dynamic when there is a perpetrator and victim and bully effect and if you tell people what goes on with us, i'll hurt your family. all these thinly vailed threats that people that are victimized believed and that's the trama. >> in relation to james dimaggio's sister, the only surviving sibling, the authorities tapped her phone and facebook account and it's believed laura robinson is possibly aiding dimaggio in his capture to authorities on the run.

robinson had multiple unusually large number of calls to his phone on the day of the crime. we don't know what her explanation would be for those calls but certainly, a huge welter of new information coming out about this. >> yes. >> and some unanswered question. >>s many. >> thank you. >> thank you. when we come back, gone to pot, america's marijuana obsession. you heard son jay gaup too change his opinion. why montel morgan did, as well. [ male announcer ] what's important to you? at humana, our medicare agents sit down with you and ask. being active. and being with this guy. [ male announcer ] getting to know you is how we help you choose the humana medicare plan that works best for you. mi familia. ♪ [ male announcer ] we want to help you achieve your best health, so you can keep doing the things that are important to you. taking care of our customers. taking care of her. and the next thing on our list is bungee jumping. [ male announcer ] helping you... now that's what's important to us.

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sanjay gupta getting on the mary jane train. chief core spon dant of the weed network. >> the daily show who owes me $10,000 for the bet he made that i wouldn't find a video of myself nearly dying on a segway. we'll move on. he may be laughing about cannabis. should it be legal or a crime? joining me is montel williams who uses marijuana to treat pain and sanjay gupta that changed his mind about marijuana in a documentary called weed. gentlemen, let me come to both of you together. i want to start with montel. i talked to you before about this and your daily use of marijuana. i believe you've taken some today as you would every day, is that correct? >> we haven't had a chance to talk for quite awhile. i've been involved in a program

that's a deep brain stimulation program. i don't have to use as much as i have in the past, but when i try to use it like i would use it if i was using vicodin or any medication, most of the time before i go to sleep at night, i have the toughest time with night cramps and tremors and they cause that pain that stays there until 2:00 or 3:00 in the morning so i normally use in the evening. part of the reason i reached out to you, piers, last week when i was in chile, the second i saw sanjay promoting the sunday special and just the fact that he said, you know what i stopped and looked at the research, did what a doctor is supposed to do, looked at the research and now i'm ready to at least look at this under a different light. his mind isn't completely changed but in the direction that let's support the research that's there that says this is something doctors should be the ones to prescribe it. >> well said. >> for somebody like you montel that suffered in pain for years

and years and years and has constantly put out there a belief that you do think marijuana could be use in a medical way to help people in your position, you must feel, not vindicated by this but also pretty grateful to sanjay. he's an imminent doctor making a u-turn. >> thankful, i would hug him and kiss him because what we've been waiting for in in entire movement. not the movement to leggize. that's not what i'm involved in at all. i'm talking about the fact i have a relationship with a doctor who can right now prescribe me any medication to help affect my pain from the most extremes. i won't name any because i don't want to put any drugs down. i they don't work for me any more. i out used my opiet lifestyle.

if he says i think i should pro scribe this tablet to you to eat or smoke this i think that will work for you and that will help you work and be a contributing member to society, that's the doctor i want and the relationship i would have. he's such a preimminent doctor and recognize that way in the united states and worldwide. i want more doctors to recognize his statement, do the research. that's all we ask. >> good point. >> sanjay you got enormous ratings for this special sunday, some of the biggest ratings had outside of the breaking news in a long time, showing there is vast interest in the subject. america is moving slowly many believe towards at least bringing in medical use of cannabis in a legalized way and possibly recreationally. you've been keen to stress the medical benefits and not straying into recreational and similar position to montel. you've also attracted lots on flak this week from some doctors who say this is dangerous and it

shouldn't be happening. i've got one of those doctors coming up after the break. what is your response to the criticism you had this week? >> a lot of the criticism, first of all, you talk to a guy like montel and he's been ahead of the curve and been talking about this for years because he's lived this and i wish more people myself included would have paid attention to the course of legitimate patients with legitimate problems who got legitimate benefit from this. but having said that, i think the criticism often stems from this saying look if you do this, what about the kids? i get it. i have kids. that -- i understand that concern and all that. but i don't think either montel or i are saying this is something we would advocate for kids to take. if the trade off is because of the concern about kids, that patients will then be denied therapy that works for them like montel williams and like hundreds of thousands of other

patients out there, that's not something i think doctors or frankly any compassion et person should accept. >> before we go to break, honestly, for the last 37 years in the united states of america kar , our federal government figured out how to do it. every single month they send one of these out to patients alive. it started with 30 patients, and now only four are alive. they get 500 marijuana cigarettes rolled by the federal government grown at the university of mississippi and sent out to dispensaries every month. this isn't that hard. all we have to do is have the president of the united states change it from schedule one to two and bring it under the controls we have and therefore pharmacies could dispence it. they have saves. we already have the system in place. and if our government has been testing it, growing it, and selling it for 37 years, how long is it going to take them to figure out? >> there is a hypocrisy here,

piers. it's amazing. that is an example of the hypocrisy the united states government also owns a patent on marijuana as a medical application. montel has it here. so we have a patent through our department of health and human services on marijuana as a therapeutic and scheduled as a schedule one saying it has no medical application. >> look, we'll go to the break, i promised now. we'll come back with the director of adolescence substance abuse program and the chair of the american academy of pediatrics. she has a different view and i'm sure it will be a forthright discussion after the break. ♪

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so is pot harmless or a gateway drug, and do the benefits of medical marijuana out weigh the risk. back with me now is montel williams that uses marijuana every day. dr. sharon weaver joins me, boston's children's hospital. dr. leevy, you heard what dr. sanjay says and montel who actively uses marijuana to deal with his pain successfully, why are you so opposed to this? >> well, i oppose medical marijuana, i wal want to start saying i agree with a lot with sanjay and montel. so it's pretty clear that there are a lot of potential

therapeutic events that are helping montel with his pain. there is canabadial helping the little girl in the documentary and as a physician, i think it's really important that we develop these as medications, and i'm not here to try and block patients who really need this -- really need the therapy from getting it. the issue is, though, that it's -- i would say as a medication, it's not really quite ready for prime time. there's a lot we don't know about it. we don't have a good idea how to do dosing. we don't know about the substance. the issue really is that for every patient who would benefit from medical marijuana, there are probably several others who could be harmed by marijuana but using it for a condition that's really not going to help it.

>> but, i mean, isn't it certainly absurd the u.s. government still classifieds marijuana in the same category with lsd and heroin which are drugs with no currently accepted medical use and a high potential for abuse. quite clearly, even you agree with sanjay and montel there is clear evidence that it does bring therapeutic help and medical help where appropriate. so the classification seems to be completely wrong, doesn't it? >> well, you know, i think that there has been difficulty in studying canabinoids because of the special and interviews on cnn and we know that there are more agencies regulating cannabinoids. as physicians we could be a

advocating for fissioning the regulatory problems so we can study this the proper way and use it as medications. i worry, though, that medical marijuana is really a work around and whenever you do a work around, you can make mistakes and that's why those regulatory processes are there in the first place. and so i think we need to fix them, but i don't think that we should be going around them. >> let's play something from the documentary. this is charlotte 5 years old suffering seizures a week. she's down to one a week from a formula of marijuana that didn't got her high. watch the clip. >> reporter: it was his 5-year-old daughter charlotte seizing. with epilepsy she was having 300 says sure as week, each attack so severe it had the potential to kill her. they tried dozens of

high-powdered drugs. >> we needed to try something else, and at that point in time marijuana was that natural course of action to try. >> reporter: holding charlotte in her arms, page waited. an hour ticked by, and then another and then another. >> she didn't have a seizure that day and then she didn't have a seizure that night. >> just sit there and look at your watch? >> yeah, i thought this is crazy. she didn't have one the next day and the next day. i thought -- she would have had 100 by now. i just -- i know, i just thought this is insane. >> yeah, i still get goose bumps watching that. i agree with dr. leevy. to give you context with charlotte who is like several patients, she was on medications that could potentially be toxic.

they wanted to compound a veterinary pill for her and when they suggested marijuana, they said hang on a second, that's crazy. marijuana? come on now. you look at her. she's on a medication now that for her is clearly working, working better than everything else that was out there and for her, far less toxic. so again, i don't want you to think this is an an in this case total story. she's like other stories. >> montel you had problems at airports stopped with pipes and everything. charlottes story, we're stunned by it and in awe over what happened in solving her terrible, terrible affliction with medical marijuana yet if she steps food out t out of col where it's legal she could break the law in other states for something that clearly almost saved her life. dr. leevey that can't be right, can it?

>> again, you know, my point of view is not to keep cannabanoids away from kids like charlotte. the best way to deliver cannabinoids may be the extracts of marijuana. i hope in the future that we're able to do a little better, that we're able to develop them as a medication like every other, and, you know, i certainly don't imagine ever recommending that any patient smoke a medication. there has been some illusion to that. so, you know, i think all of these steps are very, very important. for a child like charlotte, that may mean that we need to have some mechanism for compassion et use because clearly, she can't wait, but -- >> okay -- >> i do think that -- >> okay. let me just go to montel on this for a final word from you, montel. because you're a classic example of somebody whose life is

measurable improved by medical marijuana. where do you think it will go? >> we have more doctors and dr. leevey agrees. we need to do the research. for the last 38 years, the federal government wasted money researching something and dispensing it. what they made and delivered, send me this. expand the program and allow me to have what our government grows if they now over 38 years says should work and just like the people that receive this canister can travel from state to state to state with this canister. so i'll say that, you know, i spent 22 years in the military supporting and defending this contusion of the united states in uniform, i should have the same rights the government affords for other people. they give this to them to solve pain problems. i'm in pain. give it to me and i don't have to worry about going through airports because this is a pass from the federal government to take it with me. >> i'm totally with you and sanjay and i understand the

concerns. thank you for joining me. every time i think when you come on my show, why is he not back on his own tv show. >> i'm coming back, piers. >> we'll discuss that at another time. i'll leave it there. sanjay's special "weed" is re-airing at 10:00 p.m. eastern. that follows my own one-hour special on pot which is equally fascinating. it's a river visiting subject that americans are a debating. that's on friday night. up next, michael jackson's ex-wife testifies about his drug use. the latest from the courthouse. [ male announcer ] america's favorite endless shrimp is back!

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that wasn't good. sorry. >> get out of my way. >> how is paris doing? >> michael jackson's ex-wife leaving court today after testifying in the wrongful death suit. the company is responsible for the pop star's death because they failed to super vice conrad murray. we have more with the latest, ted. pretty dramatic and emotional performance from debbie row. what did you make of what happens? >> reporter: well, you know what? frankly, it was sad, piers.

the story that she told and that was of competing doctors trying to give michael jackson as much pain medication as they could and trying to one up each other during the time period after he fg recovering from the 1984 pepsi commercial where he burned his head through the rest of his life and testified that she saw in germany during the 1997 victory tour, michael jackson getting propofol in a hotel room saying it looked like a surgical suite for sleep two consecutive nights or two accept pretty nights during the tour and talked about drug use and how low he got during this period. it comes back to the doctors she said was taking advantage of him. she did the one thing for aeg who put her on the stand and that was to describe the event in germany. she wanted her to tell jackson and jackson himself plotted this and they had no idea he had this problem before hiring him for the concert series which he was preparing for before he died.

>> thank you very much indeed. who should aeg -- should aeg be blamed for michael jackson's death. that's a question for tom, a defense attorney and represented him in the molestation case. a fascinating day with debbie row but in the end was a picture built that helps aeg in the sense of jackson's clear long-time use of propofol and all these doctors, not just conrad murray supplying it for him? >> i think it helped kathryn jackson and michael's children, piers. both sides are trying to prove that michael had an addiction to painkillers and prescription medications. kathryn and michael's kids are saying aeg knew after this because an executive was a tour manager twice during the '90s and hired an addiction specialist to help him after he became addicted after the pepsi commercial. he was addicted to prescription medications because they want to say he was responsible for his

own demice and number two, if they are held liable they want the damages low. addiction to painkillers and medication lowered the value of his career, lowered whatever expectations there were about what he could earn. so they are both trying to prove he was addicted. i think she helped kathryn and michael's children. what she described is something aeg in my opinion had to know about because of their constant involvement with michael jackson, particularly that executive who was the tour manager on two tours. so i think aeg will be hard pressed to say we never heard this was going on. we knew nothing about it. it's news to us. particularly when they said they investigated conrad murray to see if he was suitable and changed their position and said we said that but really didn't do it. >> but if conrad murray simply is the latest in a long line of doctors who have been happy to supply the propofol to michael jackson and in the end, we're talking about a 50-year-old man here, not a young teenager in michael jackson, somebody who

clearly was very in charge of his life in many ways, if he was using conrad morely like many other doctors to give him what he wanted, does that not in a way help ae gerks's cag's case,? >> they were willing to take big ris toc get big returns. they knew they could make a fortune if michael jackson's come back was successful. i think what they mistakingly did looking back, take responsibility for conrad murray and agreed to pay him $150,000 a month and send him an agreement to sign and talked about the obligations they would have with respect to him and sent e-mails reminding everyone who was paying conrad murray and suggesting they were putting pressure on conrad murray to make him perform. i think the problem is they took risks including taking responsibility for murray as a price to pay for getting him on a come back plan that would have been the biggest entertainment come back in history.

>> so right now, dollar for dollar, tom, your money would be on aeg losing this case? >> that's what i think. now i have not been in the courtroom. i'm not allowed in there because i'm on the plaintiff's witness list but think brian, the plaintiff's lawyer is the best civil plaintiff's lawyer in america. nobody else in los angeles comes close. i heard he's doing a bang up job and i think cat rkathryn and ths will earn big. i think what he could have earned in his career exceeds a million dollars. >> good to talk to you. thank you. coming up, the real secrets about bradley manning. we know about spying but was he a cross dresser? they

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bradley manning's sentencing today, he apologized for hurting his country. but the most dramatic moments were about his personal life and struggles. what an exotic name you have there. let's just talk very quick before we get to private manning about hannah anderson. she's gone online, what do you think about that, and the fact

that she's revealing all this information? >> what's so shocking about it, if this is in fact hannah anderson who is speaking to the public, there isn't someone watching over here at this very pivotal time and keeping her away from forums like that, which as psychologists have said can drudge up lots of things she shouldn't be thinking or talking about right now. where is the dad in all of this? >> it does seem a little odd, doesn't it? >> it's definitely odd -- >> she is clearly the victim here. >> she's 16 years old. we all make mistakes when we're 16, but i think it tells you where we are in this time where technology plays such a huge role in our lives, too. she just went through this horrific experience, i can't imagine what she's going through now. rather than having reporters calling her, knocking on her door, she has the ability to go and approach people on her own via the internet and have no filter there.

clearly that's what is going on here. >> let's turn to bradley manning, where we see this picture of him dressed as a woman and a wig and lots of detail, with a very difficult upbringing with two parents that had drinking problems, that he had characteristics of fetal alcohol syndrome. what do you think of this? it's an odd development again in a very high profile case. >> obviously it's a very important attempt by his team to humanize them. what this has raised is how do you have a kid like that with those kinds of problems, curled up in a fetal position, being sent back to his desk to deal with sensitive information. we assume all of these people are handling classified information are rational adults, and it's revealing that they keep a guy like this on the job because they're so understaffed that they need him there.

>> when we look at bradley manning and edward snowden and whistleblowers, are they heros to you? >> absolutely. i think bradley manning is somebody who i commend for what he did. this entire focus on his personal back ground is a bit of a distraction. it's an attempt by the defense to try to get some mercy from the judge. they want the sentenced reduced. he's facing a maximum of 90 years in jail. a lot of people have been focusing on the apology, that somehow did he disappoint his biggest followers out there? absolutely not. he's been convicted and facing 90 years in jail. he spoke about how this is a matter of conscience for him and how he wanted to spark a debate. i think it's really a travesty has done to bradley manning. he was detained for three years before he even got a trail.

some of that time at the marine brig at quantico. >> one word, hero or villain? >> it's not our job to weigh in on that. he's delusional, though. he's talking about his disclosures could end the wars in iraq and afghanistan. this is not someone who should be handling life and death decisions. >> but these are disclosures no one else is willing to make. at least we're having the conversation now. same thing with edward snowden. if you want to have the debate that the new changes the president announced, they wouldn't be happening if not for whistleblowers. >> that's all for us tonight. anderson cooper starts in just a few moments. ok, i am coming.

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